Lecture 16: How to Run a User Interview 第十六讲：如何进行用户调研

Lecture 16: How to Run a User Interview

第十六讲：如何进行用户调研

第16讲课程视频

讨论地址:http://www.huomen.com/topic-show-id-103.html

Sam Altman: Good afternoon. Today’s guest speaker is Emmett Shear. Emmett is the CEO of Twitch, which was acquired by Amazon, where he now works. Emmett is going to talk about how to do great user interviews; this is the talking to users part of “How to Start a Start Up.” It should be really useful. Thank you very much for coming!
萨姆：下午好。今天的演讲嘉宾是埃米特·谢恩。埃米特是Twitch的首席执行官，Twitch被亚马逊收购，他现在在亚马逊工作。埃米特将讨论如何进行出色的用户访谈；这是“如何启动初创企业”中与用户交谈的部分，应该非常有用。非常感谢您的光临！
Emmett Shear: Thanks Sam. I started my first startup with Justin Kan right out of college. We started a company called Kiko Calendar. It didn’t go so well. Well, it went alright. We built it, we sold it on eBay. That’s not necessarily the end you want for your start up.
埃米特：谢谢山姆。我从大学毕业就和贾斯汀·坎一起开始了我的第一次创业。我们开了一家公司叫Kiko Calendar。事情不太顺利。好吧，一切顺利。我们造的，我们在eBay上卖的。这不一定是你创业的目的。
It was a good time. We learned a lot. We learned a lot about programming. We didn’t know anything about calendars. Neither one of us were users of calendars. Nor did we, during the period of time we did the thing, go talk to anyone who actually did use a calendar. That was not optimal. We got the build stuff part of the startup down. We did not get to the talk to users part.
那是一段美好的时光。我们学到了很多。我们学到了很多编程知识。我们对日历一无所知。我们俩都不是日历的使用者。在我们做这件事的那段时间里，我们也没有去和任何真正使用日历的人交谈。这不是最佳的。我们把创业公司的建设部分搞定了。我们没有进入“与用户交谈”部分。
The second startup we started, we used a very common trick that lets you get away with not talking to users, which was that we were our own consumer. We had this idea for a television show, Justin.tv, a reality show of Justin Kan’s life. We built technology and a website around the reality show we wanted to run. We were the users for that product. One way to cheat and get away with not talking to many other users is to build something that literally is just for you. Then you don’t need to talk to anyone else because you know what you want and what you need. But that is limiting way to start a startup. Most startups are not built for the person who is using them. When you do that, every now and then you get really lucky and you are a representative of some huge class of people who all want the exact same thing you do. But very often, it just turns into a side project that doesn’t go anywhere.
在我们开始的第二次创业中，我们使用了一个非常常见的伎俩，让你不必与用户交谈，那就是我们是自己的消费者。我们有个电视节目的主意，贾斯汀电视台，一个关于菅直人生活的真人秀。我们围绕我们想办的真人秀建立了技术和网站。我们是那个产品的用户。欺骗和逃避与其他用户交谈的一种方法是构建真正适合你的东西。那你就不需要和别人说话了，因为你知道你想要什么，你需要什么。但这限制了创业的方式。大多数初创公司不是为使用它们的人而建立的。当你这样做的时候，你时不时会感到非常幸运，你是一个巨大阶层的代表，他们都希望你做同样的事情。但很多时候，它只是变成了一个没有任何进展的辅助项目。
We kept working on Justin.tv for awhile and we actually achieved a good deal of success because it turned out that there were people out there who wanted to do the same thing we did, which was broadcast our lives on the internet. The issue with Justin.tv that kept us from achieving greatness is we hadn’t figured out how to build towards anything beyond that initial TV show. We built a great product. If you wanted to run a live 24/7 Reality television show about your life, we had the website for you. We had exactly what you needed but if we wanted to go do more than that. We wanted to open it up to a broader spectrum of people and use cases, but we didn’t have the insight to figure that out because we weren’t that user.
我们一直在努力贾斯汀电视台有一段时间，我们取得了很大的成功，因为事实证明，有人想做和我们一样的事情，在互联网上直播我们的生活。与…有关的问题贾斯汀电视台使我们无法取得伟大成就的原因是，除了最初的电视节目之外，我们还没有想出如何打造任何东西。我们制造了一个很棒的产品。如果你想做一个关于你生活的24/7真人秀，我们有这个网站。我们有你所需要的，但如果我们想做更多。我们想把它向更广泛的人群和用例开放，但我们没有洞察到这一点，因为我们不是那个用户。
So we decided to pivot Justin.tv. We decided we needed to go in a new direction. We thought we built a lot of valuable technology but we hadn’t identified a use case that would let it get really big. There were two directions that seemed promising. One was mobile and one was gaming. I lead the gaming initiative inside of the company. What we did with gaming that was very, very different from what we’d ever done before was we actually went and talked to users. Because while I loved watching gaming videos, I was very aware that neither I nor anyone else in the company knew anything about broadcasting video games. I was amped about the content. I thought that there was market there. That was the insight that wasn’t common at the time, which was how much fun it was to watch video games.
所以我们决定改变主意贾斯汀电视台. 我们决定要走一条新路。我们认为我们建立了很多有价值的技术，但我们还没有确定一个用例，可以让它变得非常大。有两个方向看起来很有希望。一个是手机，一个是游戏。我领导公司内部的游戏计划。我们所做的游戏与我们以前所做的非常非常不同，我们实际上是去和用户交谈。因为虽然我喜欢看游戏视频，但我非常清楚，无论是我还是公司里的任何人，都不知道如何播放视频游戏。我对内容感到兴奋。我以为那里有市场。这是当时不常见的见解，那就是看电子游戏有多有趣。
Quick show of hands, how many people know about watching video games on the internet here? If you don’t know about watching video games internet you should go read about it, because it’s important context for the stuff I am going to talk about. The main point is I thought it was awesome, but I didn’t know anything about the important side of it, which is actually acquiring the content of the startup broadcasting. We ran a very large number of user interviews. We talked to a lot of people and that data formed the core of all the decision making for the next three years of product features on Twitch. We continued to talk to users and in fact built an entire part of the company whose job it is to talk to our users. That is a whole division we didn’t even have at Justin.tv. We had no one at the company whose job it was to talk to our most important users.
快举手，这里有多少人知道在网上看电子游戏？如果你不知道在网上看电子游戏，你应该去看看，因为这是我要谈的东西的重要背景。主要的一点是我觉得它很棒，但我对它的重要方面一无所知，那就是获取创业广播的内容。我们进行了大量的用户访谈。我们和很多人谈过，数据构成了未来三年Twitch产品特性决策的核心。我们继续与用户交谈，事实上，我们建立了公司的一个完整部分，其工作就是与我们的用户交谈。那是一个我们根本没有的部门贾斯汀电视台. 公司里没有一个人的工作是和我们最重要的用户交谈。
I want to give you guys a little bit of insight into what it meant to talk to users. We determined that the broadcasters were the most important people because when we went and looked into the market, we looked into what determined why people watched a certain stream or went to a certain website. They would just follow the content. You had a piece of content you loved and the broadcaster would come with you. That’s actually the one really important point about user interviews, which is that who you talk to is as important as what questions you ask and what you pull away from it. Because if you go and talk to a set of users, if we had gone and talked to viewers only, we would have gotten completely different feedback than if we were talking to the broadcasters. Talking to the broadcasters gave us insight into how to build something for them. That turned out to be strategically correct. I wish I could tell you the recipe for figuring who the target user is for your product, and who your target user should be, but there isn’t a recipe. It comes down to thinking really hard and using your judgment to figure out who you are really building this for.
我想让你们了解一下和用户交谈的意义。我们确定广播公司是最重要的人，因为当我们去调查市场时，我们调查了是什么决定了人们为什么看某个流或去某个网站。他们只会跟着内容走。你有一段你喜欢的内容，播音员会和你一起去。这实际上是关于用户访谈的一个非常重要的观点，那就是你和谁谈话和你问什么问题以及从中得到什么一样重要。因为如果你去和一组用户交谈，如果我们只去和观众交谈，我们会得到完全不同于我们和广播公司交谈的反馈。通过与广播公司的交谈，我们深入了解了如何为他们建造一些东西。这在战略上是正确的。我希望我能告诉你一个方法，来确定你的产品的目标用户是谁，你的目标用户应该是谁，但是没有一个方法。归根结底，你要认真思考，运用你的判断力，找出你真正为谁而建。
I want to do something interactive now. I’m going to get a bunch of ideas from you guys and I’m going to pick one of them. I want everyone to sit down and do step one of this process right now. Which people, where would you go to find the people you needed to talk to in order to learn about what you should build. The idea we are going to use is a lecture focused note taking app. The idea is: the state of the art for note taking is not good enough yet and I want to make a note taking app that improves that experience. It will make taking notes in class better. Maybe it has collaboration features or maybe it helps you focus better somehow. It has multimedia enhancements. All sorts of possible features. That’s the idea. So take 120 seconds right now and think about not what you would ask or what the right features for this app is, but who would you talk to? Who is going to give you that feedback that is going to tell you whether this is good or not. It’s good to think in your head but actually write it down and come up with the five people you would talk to. The five types of people you talk to, and who you think the most important one was. There’s nothing like actually running through something and trying to do it. Actually get it into your head that it’s right way to do it. I’m gratified to hear the clicking of keyboards now. If you are following along at home actually do it. Think about who would you talk to because that’s the first question for almost any startup. You need the answer to the question: who is my user and where am I going to find them?
我现在想做些互动的事情。我要从你们那里得到一堆想法，我要从中挑选一个。我希望大家现在就坐下来做第一步。哪些人，你会去哪里找到你需要交谈的人，以便了解你应该建立什么。我们要使用的是一个以演讲为中心的笔记应用程序。这个想法是：最先进的笔记技术还不够好，我想做一个笔记应用程序，以改善这种体验。它会使课堂上做笔记更好。也许它有协作功能，或者它可以帮助你更好地集中精力。它有多媒体增强功能。各种可能的特征。就是这个主意。所以，现在花120秒，不要想你会问什么，也不要想这个应用程序的正确功能是什么，而是想你会和谁交谈？谁会给你反馈，告诉你这是好是坏。在头脑中思考是很好的，但实际上把它写下来，然后想出五个你想和之交谈的人。与你交谈的五类人，以及你认为最重要的人是谁。没有什么比实际经历某件事并尝试去做它更重要的了。实际上，让你的头脑知道这是正确的方法。我很高兴听到键盘的咔哒声。如果你跟在家里，那就去做吧。想想你会和谁说话，因为这是几乎所有初创公司的第一个问题。你需要这个问题的答案：谁是我的用户，我要在哪里找到他们？
Alright, that’s shorter than you normally would think about this problem. It’s actually a really tricky problem, figuring out where to source people is pretty hard. We’re going to move along in this highly abbreviated version of learning how to build a product and running a user interview.
好吧，这比你通常认为的这个问题要短。这实际上是一个非常棘手的问题，弄清楚在哪里找人是相当困难的。我们将继续学习如何构建一个产品和运行一个用户访谈的高度简化的版本。
Can I get one volunteer from the audience to come up and tell us who you would talk to. And we’ll talk about it.
我能从观众中找一个志愿者来告诉我们你会和谁说话吗。我们来谈谈。
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Audience Member 1: I would definitely talk to college students first, because we sit in a lot of lectures. Specifically, I want to talk to college students studying different subjects to see if they are an English major, if that makes a difference versus studying Math or Computer Science in terms of how you want to take notes in different lectures.
观众1：我肯定会先和大学生交流，因为我们经常听讲座。具体而言，我希望与学习不同科目的大学生交流，以确定他们是否主修英语，与学习数学或计算机科学相比，在不同的课堂上记笔记的方式是否有所不同。
Emmett Shear: You’re going to talk to a bunch of college students. Would you pick any particular subset of college students? We don’t want to talk to all college students.
埃米特•西尔：你要和一群大学生交流。你会挑选任何特定的大学生群体？我们不想和所有大学生讲话。
Audience Member 1: I want to only talk to college students and break down the divisions by people who study different areas. It would make sense for people who have different study techniques, because some people take a lot of notes. Some people don’t take that many notes but still jot stuff down.
观众1：我只想和大学生交流，按照不同领域的人划分。这对学习技术不同的人来说是有意义的，因为有些人会记很多笔记。有些人记不下那么多笔记，但仍记下一些东西。
Emmett Shear: That’s a really good start. Those are obviously the users you want to go talk to, especially if you are targeting college students as the consumer. If you are talking to college students as the consumer, you are going to get a lot out of students about what their current note taking habits are and what they would be excited about.
埃米特•西尔：这是一个非常好的开始。这些显然是你想与之交流的用户，特别是当你以大学生为目标客户时。如果你以消费者的身份与大学生交流，你将从学生中获得很多关于他们目前记笔记习惯的信息，以及他们会为之兴奋的信息。
One of the problems with selling things to college students is that college students actually don’t spend very much money. It’s really hard to get you guys to open your wallets, especially if you want them to pay for a school related thing. People don’t even want to buy text books. You probably all use checks or debit or borrow from your friends. So one of the things that I think you would be missing if you go after just the students, is who the most important person to this this app is. If you actually had a note taking app for colleges, the people most likely to actually buy a note taking app would be college IT.
向大学生出售物品的一个问题是，大学生实际上并不花很多钱。这真的很难让你们打开钱包，特别是如果你想让他们为学校相关的事情付款。人们甚至不想买教科书。你可能都会使用支票或借记卡或向朋友借钱。因此，我认为，如果你只关注学生，你会遗漏的一件事是，这个应用程序最重要的人是谁。如果你真的有一个针对大学的笔记应用程序，最有可能实际购买一笔记应用程序的人将会是college IT。
Presumably for the most part you want to sell software to students, and the people who have to be brought into that is usually the school administrators. That might be one approach. I feel like you will presumably go talk to college students and find out they don’t actually buy any note software now at all. It’s possible they do, in which case I’m completely wrong. This is why you have to go and talk to the users.
想必在很大程度上，你想向学生销售软件，而必须被引入其中的人通常是学校管理人员。这可能是一种方法。我认为你可能会去和大学生交流，发现他们现在根本不买任何笔记本软件。有可能，在这种情况下，我完全错了。这就是你必须去和用户交流的原因。
But you then have to try other groups. So I would talk to college IT administrators as well.That’s another area that’s really promising. You might talk to parents. Who spends money on their kids’ education? Who is willing to pull their wallet out? The parents of kids who are freshmen going to college for the first time. You need this app to make your kid productive so that they don’t fail out of college. There are actually a lot of groups that aren’t necessarily obvious users but who are potentially critical to your app’s success. When you are at the very beginning of a startup, when you have this idea that you think is awesome, you want to have the broadest group you possibly can. You don’t just want to talk to one type of person. You want to get familiar with the various kind of people who could be contributing.
但你必须尝试其他小组。所以我会以好吧，那这是另一个非常有前景的领域。你可以和父母聊聊。谁把钱花在孩子的教育上？谁愿意掏钱包？新生第一次上大学的家长。你需要这个应用程序让你的孩子有生产力，这样他们就不会大学毕业。实际上，有很多群组并不一定是显而易见的用户，但他们对你的应用程序的成功具有潜在的关键作用。当你在创业初期，当你有一个你认为很酷的想法，你希望有尽可能广泛的团体。你不只是想和一种人说话。你希望熟悉各种可能做出贡献的人。
Let’s have someone come up and we’re going to pretend we are running a user interview. We are going to talk to a college student and try to find out what we should build, what we should get into this note taking app. Another volunteer please, for running an interview. Hello.
让我们找个人来，然后假设我们正在进行用户访问。我们将与一名大学生讨论，并试图找出我们应该构建什么，我们应该在这个笔记型应用程序中加入什么。另请一位志愿者参加面试。你好。
Audience Member 2: Hi, I’m Stephanie.
观众2：嗨，我是斯蒂芬妮。
Emmett Shear: Hi Stephanie.
埃米特Shear:嗨，斯蒂芬妮。
Audience Member 2: Nice to meet you.
观众2：很高兴认识你。
Emmett Shear: Welcome. Thank you for agreeing to do this user interview with us. I want to hear from you about your note taking habits. How do you take notes today?
埃米特：欢迎。感谢您同意与我们进行此用户访谈。我想听你讲讲你的记笔记习惯。你今天怎么记笔记？
Audience Member 2: Sure, I take notes in a variety of ways. Because of speed and efficiency, and because I can come back to it later, it’s easy for me to take notes on my laptop. A lot of those would be primarily text based, but in certain classes, for example if I am taking a History class, most of it would be in text. But if I am taking a Physics class, there are going to be more complex diagrams and different angles I have to draw.
观众2：当然，我会用各种方法记笔记。由于速度和效率，以及因为我可以稍后再回到它，我很容易在笔记本电脑上做笔记。其中很多课程主要是以文本为基础的，但在某些课程中，例如，如果我选的是历史课，大部分课程都是以文本为基础的。但如果我要上物理课，我必须画出更复杂的图表和不同的角度。
Emmett Shear: What software do you use for this stuff today?
埃米特：你今天用什么软件做这些？
Audience Member 2: I just do pen and paper for that.
观众2：我就是为这个做笔画。
Emmett Shear: You do pen and paper. So you do a combination. You take notes with pen and paper. You take notes with the computer sometimes.
埃米特：你会用笔和纸。所以你做一个组合。你用笔和纸做笔记。你有时用电脑做笔记。
Audience Member 2: Yup.
观众2：是的。
Emmett Shear: When you take all these notes, at the end, do you actually review them? Be honest! Do you actually go back and look at this notes?
埃米特•西尔：当你记下所有这些笔记时，在最后，你是否真的审阅了它们？诚实点！你真的回头看这张纸条了？
Audience Member 2: The pen and paper not so much. But yes to the software based. It’s easier to access and it’s easier for me to share and collaborate and maybe even merge notes with classmates and friends.
观众2：用笔用纸不多。但对以软件为基础的。它更容易访问，也更容易让我与同学和朋友分享和合作，甚至合并笔记。
Emmett Shear: What did you use to take notes today on your computer?
埃米特：你今天用什么在电脑上记笔记？
Audience Member 2: Google Docs and Evernote.
观众2：谷歌文档和Evernote。
Emmett Shear: Why two things at the same time?
埃米特：为何二件事同时发生？
Audience Member 2: Evernote is easy if I am trying to just collect for myself. You can share, but Google Docs is easier to share. If a friend has already created a folder in Google Docs, I just have to add to that folder. If it’s for my personal use I tend to go more toward Evernote.
观众2：如果我只为自己收集，每个音都很容易。你可以分享，但谷歌文档更容易分享。如果一个朋友已经在谷歌文档中创建了一个文件夹，我只需将其添加到该文件夹。如果是我个人使用，我倾向于使用Evernote。
Emmett Shear: It sounds like you have a lot of note taking collaborations.
埃米特•西尔：听上去你有很多值得注意的合作。
Audience Member 2: Yeah, I wish it was integrated.
观众2：是的，我希望是综合的。
Emmett Shear: Tell me more about that. Do you wind up taking most of the notes, most of the value out of notes that other people take? Or is it mostly your own notes you review at the end of the semester? How does that work?
埃米特•西尔：再给我讲讲。你最终是否会从其他人的笔记中提取大部分，大部分的价值？或者，这主要是你在期末审阅的自己的笔记？如何工作？
Audience Member 2: It’s mostly mine because I am pretty picky about the way I like things organized. Design wise or formatting, even color, I am really particular with. The font that we use really effects the way I study. So I tend to personalize notes, even after I merge them.
观众2：大部分是我的，因为我对自己喜欢的组织方式相当挑剔。无论是设计还是格式，甚至是颜色，我都很特别。我们使用的字体确实影响了我的学习方式。所以我倾向于个性化笔记，即使在我合并它们之后。
Emmett Shear: So you’re pulling notes from other people but then you merge them into what works for you. Awesome! If you have Evernote notes and you have Google Docs notes, and you have pen and paper notes, once the semester is over, do you ever go back to any of that stuff or is it per quarter? Once the quarter is over, do you ever go back to any of that stuff?
埃米特•西尔：所以你从其他人身上提取笔记，然后把它们合并到对你有效的工具中。令人惊叹的！如果你有Evernote笔记和谷歌文档笔记，你有钢笔和纸笔记，一旦学期结束，你有没有回过或是每季回过？一旦季度结束，你有没有回过任何一个季度？
Audience Member 2: For classes not so much, but if it’s notes that I have taken for talks, like these for example, or if it’s interview prep, I tend to go back because I like to keep these things fresh in my mind. They help me prep for future things.
观众2：课程不多，但如果是我为演讲做的笔记，比如这些，或者是面试准备，我倾向于往回走，因为我喜欢把这些记在心里。他们帮我准备未来的事情。
Emmett Shear: That’s interesting. Tell me more about that. You take notes not just in class.
埃米特：很有意思。告诉我更多。你不仅在课堂上做笔记。
Audience Member 2: I take notes to summarize main points. For example, inspirational quotes from talks like these. If I am going to an event where I am going to meet someone, notes help me remember what was at the talk.
观众2：我做笔记总结要点。例如，这些话中的励志名言。如果我要去参加一个活动，在那里我会遇到一个人，便条帮助我记下当时的谈话内容。
Emmett Shear: Awesome. Normally I would actually dig into a lot more detail. There are a huge amount of open questions that are still in my mind after hearing that. Which people do you collaborate with? How long are your notes?. How much time do you spend note taking? I would dig into her current behavior but in the interest of time and not making everyone hear about the intricacies of one person’s note taking habits forever, we’re going to move on. Thank you very much Stephanie.
埃米特：太棒了。通常我会深入研究更多细节。在听了这些之后，我仍然在想大量的开放性问题。你与哪些人合作？你的票据要多少时间？。你用多少时间记笔记？我会深入了解她目前的行为，但为了时间的利益，而不是让所有人永远都知道一个人记笔记习惯的错综复杂，我们将继续前进。非常感谢斯蒂芬妮。
Audience Member 2: Thank you.
观众2：谢谢。
Emmett Shear: I appreciate that. You notice we are not talking about the actual content of the app at all. I’m not really interested in features. I don’t want to know about a specific feature set in Google Docs or Evernote. I might dig a little more into which features actually get used. If she’s actively collaborating, how does that work? I heard some interesting things, ” We use a folder.” That’s interesting to me.
埃米特：我很感谢。您注意到我们根本没有讨论应用程序的实际内容。我对功能不感兴趣。我不想知道谷歌文档或Evernote中的特定功能集。我可能会更深入地了解实际使用的特性。如果她积极合作，这是如何工作的？我听了一些有趣的事情，「我们使用一个文件夹」，这对我来说很有趣。
The main thing you’re trying to do when running this first set of interviews is not necessarily ask questions about optimizing user flow. Or questions about the specifics of any of that stuff. That can be distracting because users think they know what they want. You get the horseless carriage effect where you’re asked for a faster horse instead of asked to design the actual solution to the problem.
在进行第一组访谈时，您尝试做的主要事情不一定是询问有关优化用户流的问题。或是关于这些细节的问题。这可能会分散用户的注意力，因为用户认为他们了解自己的需求。你得到了无马运输的效果，你被要求更快的马，而不是被要求设计实际的解决方案。
So you want to stay as far away from features as possible because the things they tell you feel overwhelmingly real. When you have a real user asking you for a feature, it’s very hard to say no to them because here’s a real person who really has this problem. They’re saying, “Build me this feature.” But as you start to talk to lots of people and really get a sense for what their problems are, you figure out if this is actually a promising area or not.
因此，你希望尽可能远离功能，因为他们告诉你的事情感觉非常真实。当你有一个真正的用户向你要一个功能时，很难拒绝他们，因为这是一个真正有这个问题的人。但当你开始和很多人交流并真正了解他们的问题所在时，你会发现这是否真的是一个有前景的领域。
Based on what I heard there, starting from that user interview, I’m not necessarily positive there is a problem. At least there might not be a big enough problem that it’s worth building a whole new product for. I didn’t hear a lot of things that were big blockers, where there is something really wrong with the way it was working. Unless I have some big idea, I would take that as a negative sign. That doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t move forward and keep talking to more people. Just because you don’t get anything out of talking to the first person doesn’t mean there are not going to be more people who actually have a problem. Once you’ve talked to about six to eight people, you are usually about done. It’s unlikely you’re going to discover a bunch of new information. Which is why it is important to talk to different extremes of people. Go find people who are different, because if you talk to six Stanford College students you are going to get a very different response than if you talk to six high school students or six parents.
根据我在那所听的，从用户访谈开始，我不一定肯定有一个问题。至少可能没有足够大的问题值得开发一个全新的产品。我没有听过太多大的阻碍，因为它的工作方式确实有问题。除非我有个好点子，否则我会认为这是个负面信号。这并不一定意味着你不能向前迈进并继续与更多人交流。仅仅因为你和第一者的交流没有任何收获，并不意味着不会有更多的人真正有问题。一旦你和六到八个人谈过，你通常都会说完事。你不大可能会发现一堆新信息。因此，与不同极端的人交流很重要。去寻找不同的人，因为如果你和六个史丹福大学的学生讲话，你会得到与你和六个高中生或六个家长讲话截然不同的回应。
Based on that though, you can come up with a set of ideas.You have this information about how someone takes notes. You had some ideas as to how you could build something cool. If you are going to build just one feature on top of Google Docs, what would that feature be? For a new product like this, it might be a good way to start thinking about where to go. They are extensively using this thing right now, how can we make that experience just one quantum better? Something that would be really exciting to this person, something that would be one step ahead. Take two minutes and think about what that feature might be. Try to come up with what you might do based on what you heard from Stephanie that could convince her to switch away from her current collaborative, multi-person, all working together work flow on Google Docs to your new thing that has the features of Google Docs plus this one special thing that is going to make it more useful and convince them to stop using the thing they are already using.
基于此，您可以想法。你有关于某人如何记笔记的信息。你对如何做一些酷的事情有一些想法。如果你只打算在谷歌文档的基础上构建一个功能，该功能是什么？对于这样的新产品，这可能是开始考虑去哪里的好方法。他们现在正广泛使用这个东西，我们如何才能让这种体验更好地只有一个量子？一些对这个人来说非常令人兴奋的事情，一些将向前迈进一步的事情。花二分钟考虑该功能。试着根据你从斯蒂芬妮那得到的建议，提出你可能会做的事情，说服她从目前合作、多人、共同协作的谷歌文档工作流程，转向你的新东西，它拥有谷歌文档的功能，加上这一件特别的事，将使其更有用，并说服他们停止使用他们已经使用的东西。
Awesome, alright. I am going to invite our third guest up.
太棒了，好的。我要请第三位客人来。
欢迎到火门网讨论:huomen.com
Audience Member 3: The reason she uses Evernote is because of sticky note type notes. More thoughts and like details. I feel that Google Docs has documents and not smaller notes. I feel like a feature that would be super would be a mobile version of drive that isn’t clunky and doesn’t make you use documents could be useful.
观众3：她使用Evernote的原因是因为便条型便条。更多的想法和喜欢的细节。我认为谷歌文档有文档而不是较小的注释。我认为一个超级的功能将是一个移动版本的硬盘，它不会显得呆滞，也不会让你使用文件，这可能是有用的。
Emmett Shear: Awesome. That’s a good insight. That’s exactly one of the things you get out of that user interview. Now you have this idea. You’ve gotten this user’s feedback. What if we had a Google Docs that had the collaborative aspects and the group aspects but where you could pull in more little one off notes. A product designed more around note taking. The question is now, once you have this idea, is this enough? Is this something people would actually switch to? There are two ways to validate that. One, if you are quick at programming you can literally just go build it, throw it out into the world, and see what happens. When that works, it’s an excellent way to approach the problem. But a lot of the time that one little thing that’s a bit better might take you three months to actually build. So you want to go out and validate that idea further before you start building it.
埃米特：太棒了。这是一个很好的见解。这正是你从用户访谈中得到的一件事。现在你有了这个想法。您已收到此用户的反馈。如果我们有一个谷歌文档，其中包含协作方面和组方面，但你可以在其中提取更多的小一条注释。一产品设计更注重记笔记。现在的问题是，一旦你有了这个想法，这足够了么？这是人们实际上会转向的东西？有二种方法可以验证这一点。一，如果你编程很快，你可以直接去构建它，把它扔到世界上，然后看会发生什么。当这种方法奏效时，这是解决问题的最佳方法。但很多时候，一件稍好一点的一件小事情可能需要三个月才能真正建立起来。因此，在开始构建这个想法之前，你需要更进一步地验证它。
You might take that idea and draw diagrams of what it would look like. Draw the work flow and put that in front of people. The one thing you really don’t want to do is ask them about a great idea for a feature. Ask them, “Are you excited about it?” Because the feedback you get from users if you tell them about a feature and ask them, “Is this feature good?” is often, “Oh yeah that’s great.” When you actually build it, you find out that while they thought it was a clever idea, no one actually cares to switch and get it. So the one question you can’t ask is, “Is this feature actually good or not?”
你可能会接受这个想法并画出它的图表。画出工作流程并将其呈现在人们面前。一件事你真的不想做的是问他们关于一功能的一个好想法。问他们：「你对此感到兴奋么因为当你向用户介绍一个特性并问他们“这个特性好么”时，他们会给你反馈当你实际建造它时，你会发现，尽管他们认为这是一个明智的想法，但实际上没有人愿意转换并得到它。所以一个你不能问的问题是“这个功能真的好还是不好
Sam Altman: What is the minimum that you can do to actually build on that question? Between asking and actually building the full thing?
山姆：在这个问题上，你能做的最低限度是什么？在询问和实际建造之间？
Emmett Shear: What’s the minimum you can actually get away with to validate your product, given you can’t actually just go and ask them, “Is this good or not?” It’s highly dependent on the particular feature. Usually the best thing you can do is just hack something together. If your idea is to build something on top of Google Docs, don’t go rebuild Google Documents but for note taking. Find a way to write a browser extension that stuffs that little bit of incremental feature in and see if it’s actually useful for people. Find a way to cheat is what it comes down to, because if you can’t actually put it in front of people it’s really, really hard to find that out.
埃米特•西尔：如果你不能直接去问他们“这是好还是不好”，那么在验证你的产品时，你能从中得到的最低限度是多少它高度依赖于特定的特性。通常，你能做的最好的事情就是一起做点事情。如果你的想法是在谷歌文档的基础上建立一些东西，那么不要去重建谷歌文档，而是去记笔记。找到一种方法来编写一个能填充少量增量功能的浏览器扩展，看它是否真的对人们有用。找到一个作弊的方法就是它的结果，因为如果你不能把它实际地摆在人们面前，这真的，真的很难发现。
For bigger things, where you are actually trying to get people to spend money, it gets a lot easier. If you are selling, it’s great. Sales is the cure-all for this problem. Get people to give you their credit card and I guarantee you they are actually interested in the feature. It’s one of the most validating things that you can do for a product. Go out there and actually get customers to commit to pay you up front. The problem when you are working on a student note taking app, is that’s going to be relatively hard. Unless your idea is that you’re actually going to sell it, the trial version is probably free. You’re not necessarily going to learn that much by trying to charge people money. But if you go out there and can get people to say “Hey, I am going to give you money,” the money test is amazing. It clarifies whether or not they’re really excited about your product. If you’re not five dollars excited about it, you’re probably not very excited about it.
对于更大的事情，如果你真的想让人们花钱，事情会变得容易得多。如果你在销售，这很好。销售是这个问题的万灵药。让人们给你他们的信用卡，我向你保证他们确实对该功能感兴趣。这是你能为一产品做的最有价值的事情之一。走出去，让客户承诺提前付款。当你在开发一个学生笔记应用程序时，问题是这会相对困难。除非你的想法是你真的要把它卖了，否则试用版可能是免费的。你不一定会从向别人要钱中学到那么多。但如果你能走出去，让人们说“嗨，我要给你钱”，金钱测试是令人惊异的。它澄清了他们是否真的对你的产品感兴趣。如果你对这件事不感兴趣，你可能也不太感兴趣。
The last thing I want to do is work through what happened at Twitch. I brought some slides that I’d like to put up. They are representative excerpts of Twitch feedback. I had a twenty-six page document of all the feedback and realized that reading that was going to be a little bit tedious. Lots of people said this to us when we asked them questions. I’ve pre-condensed the feedback for you.
我最不想做的事就是仔细研究抽动时发生的事情。我带来了一些我想放的幻灯。它们是抽动反馈的代表性摘录。我有一份一页的所有反馈文件，意识到阅读会有点枯燥。当我们问他们问题时，很多人都这样对我们说。我已经为您预先压缩了反馈。
To launch Twitch, we talked to a bunch of existing Justin.tv broadcasters and asked them about their experience broadcasting, what they liked about broadcasting, why they broadcasted, what they broadcasted. What else was going on in their life? When you talk to detailed users of your product, they come back to you with very detailed things about features because they get mired in the features. You have to sort of read between the lines. They ask us for things like, “I want a way to clear the ban list in my chatroom.” That was actually a very common request because there was a very particular issue with how our chatroom is worked. People would ask for the ability to edit titles of highlights after creating them. This stuff was really consistent.
为了推出Twitch，我们与一批Justin.tv广播员并询问他们的广播经验、他们喜欢广播的内容、他们为何广播、他们广播的内容。他们的生活还发生了什么？当您与产品的详细用户交流时，他们会向您反馈有关功能的非常详细的内容，因为他们深陷于功能中。你必须把字里行间的内容仔细读一读。他们向我们提出这样的要求，“我希望能在我的聊天室中清除禁令列表”，这实际上是一个非常常见的要求，因为我们的聊天室的工作方式存在一个非常特殊的问题。人们会在创建摘要后要求编辑摘要标题的能力。这些都是一致的。
As we talked to broadcasters, we probably talked to twelve to fourteen broadcasters of the Justin.tv gaming platform, we got all this feedback. “Your competitors have all these cool features like polls and scrolling text. I can personalize chat there.” Then we have some positive feedback. “You guys don’t have ads. You’re able to ban trolls.” A bunch of stuff about chat, around interactivity with their viewers. That was all really interesting. This is what the Justin.tv broadcasters wanted us to build. This is where they felt pain using the product. If you thought that what we did was go and address these problems, you would be wrong. People who are using your service already are willing to put up with all these issues, which kind of means that these are probably not the biggest problems. If you are willing to ignore the fact that you can edit the ban list and that titles are editable, that there is no way to get trolls out of your channel and you’re using the service anyways, maybe those aren’t huge problems. That brings up a really important point, which is you have to compare groups of people. And compare the level in which they argue.
当我们与广播公司交流时，我们可能与Justin.tv游戏平台，我们得到了所有反馈您的竞争对手拥有所有这些酷功能，如投票和滚动文本。我可以在这里进行个性化的聊天你们没有广告。“你可以禁止巨魔”这是一系列关于聊天、与观众互动的内容。这真的很有意思。这就是Justin.tv广播公司希望我们建设。这是他们使用产品时感到疼痛的地方。如果你认为我们所做的是去解决这些问题，那你就错了。使用你服务的人已经愿意接受所有这些问题，这意味着这些问题可能不是最大的问题。如果你愿意忽略这样一个事实：你可以编辑禁止列表，标题是可编辑的，没有办法让巨魔离开你的频道，而且你正在使用该服务，可能这些都不是大问题。这提出了一个非常重要的观点，即你必须比较不同群体的人。比较他们的争议程度。
Here we have competitor broadcaster feedback, which is really interesting. This is stuff we heard a lot from people who were using other broadcast platforms. They wanted to be able to switch multiple people onto their channel at the same time. They complained about us not having a revshare program. They talked a lot about how they were trying to make a living and they really wanted to make money pursuing this this gaming broadcasting thing. They talked about video stability. Our service wasn’t good in Europe. Globally, video stability was this huge, huge issue. If you compare and contrast, it was really different. What people who didn’t use our service cared about was completely different than the people who were using our service. We focused on this stuff because this was the stuff that was so bad that people weren’t even willing to use our service. Most of it we hadn’t actuallythought about it because our user base happened to be well educated and knew about all their options. Reaching out to them meant that they probably already tried all four services and actually had an opinion. It’s great when you can get users who are that informed and understand the space that well.
我们有竞争对手广播公司的反馈，这真的很有意思。这是我们从使用其他广播平台的人身上得到的很多信息。他们希望能够同时将多人切换到自己的频道。他们投诉我们没有举办revshare课程。他们谈了很多关于他们如何努力谋生的事情，他们真的很想在追求这个游戏广播的事情上获利。他们讨论了视频稳定性。我们在欧洲的服务不好。在全球范围内，视频稳定性是一个巨大的问题。如果你比较和对比，这真的是不同的。不使用我们服务的人关心的与使用我们服务的人完全不同。我们专注于这件事，因为这件事太坏了，人们甚至不愿意使用我们的服务。大多数情况下，我们并没有真正考虑到这一点，因为我们的用户群恰巧受过良好教育，并了解他们的所有选择。与他们接触意味着他们可能已经尝试了所有四种服务，并实际发表了意见。当你能让用户了解并理解这个空间是很好的。
The other important thing we did was talk to non-broadcasters. We talked to all the people who weren’t using us or our competitors. In many ways, those were the most important people. Talking to your competitors is a a short term win, unless your software is like Google, which is a search engine which everyone uses, then there may be no non-users to convert. In the case of gaming broadcasting, almost everyone is a non-user. The majority of people you are competing with are non-users. They are people who have never used your service before and what they say is actually the most important. What they say is the thing that blocks you from expanding the size of the market with your features.
我们做的另一件重要的事是与非广播公司进行交流。我们与所有不使用我们或我们竞争对手的人进行了沟通。在很多方面，他们是最重要的人。与竞争对手交流是短期的胜利，除非你的软件像谷歌（每个人都使用的搜索引擎）一样，否则可能没有非用户可以转换。就游戏广播而言，几乎所有人都是非用户。与你竞争的大多数人都不是用户。他们是从未使用过你的服务的人，他们所说的实际上是最重要的。他们所说的是阻碍你用自己的特色扩大市场规模的因素。
If all you do is look at your competitors and talk to people who use your competitors’ products, you can never expand. You’re not learning things that help you expand the size of the market. You want to talk to people who aren’t even trying to use these things yet. Who’ve thought about it maybe, but who aren’t into it. What did they say? My computer isn’t fast enough. I am focused on training twelve hours day for the next tournament. I like making the perfect video and I like editing it. I upload a couple of things to YouTube. I don’t do live streaming. I have no desire to go into that space. In Korea this is a big problem. Once our strategy gets broadcast in major tournaments, we have to start over. We have to come up with an entirely new strategy. The last thing we ever want to do is broadcast our practice sessions, are you crazy? That’s going to hurt us in the next big tournament.
如果你只看你的竞争对手并与使用竞争对手产品的人交流，你永远无法扩张。你所学的并不能帮助你扩大市场规模。你想和那些还没有尝试使用这些东西的人交流。可能有人考虑过，但又有人不感兴趣。他们怎么说？我的电脑不够快。我专注于为下一届锦标赛每天训练十二小时。我喜欢制作完美的视频，我也喜欢编辑。我上传了一些东西到YouTube。我不做直播。我不想进入这个空间。在韩国，这是一个大问题。一旦我们的策略在各大赛事中得到传播，我们必须重新开始。我们必须提出一个全新的策略。我们最不想做的就是广播我们的练习，你是不是很疯狂？这将在下一届大赛中伤害我们。
This became big outreach program for us, trying to figure out how to get people over this. We brought people computers. We worked closely with gaming broadcast software companies to help the people who made the broadcasting software. We started building broadcasting into games and into platforms. We built broadcasting into the Xbox. We brought broadcasting into PlayStation 4 because we needed to overcome this issue. Broadcasting wasn’t possible. These were the three big groups we looked at for broadcasting. You combine that feedback and what it tells you is not features to build, because the features they asked for, polls, the ability to have a child account, we haven’t built most of that stuff. What was important were the issues, the goals they were trying to accomplish.
这成为了我们的一项大型推广计划，试图找出如何让人们克服这一困难。我们给人们带来了电脑。我们与游戏广播软件公司密切合作，帮助制作广播软件的人。我们开始将广播建设成游戏和平台。我们在Xbox中内置了广播功能。我们将广播引入PlayStation 4是因为我们需要克服这个问题。广播是不可能的。这是我们所关注的三大广播集团。你将这些反馈和它告诉你的不需要构建的特性结合起来，因为他们所要求的特性、投票、拥有一个子账户的能力，我们并没有构建大部分这些东西。重要的是问题和他们努力实现的目标。
People wanted money. People wanted stability and quality. People wanted universal access for viewers all around the world. That became our focus. We dumped almost all of our resources into things no one ever mentioned in an interview. Those were the things that actually addressed the problem. The way that you can tell that it worked is as we would build these things, we would go back to exact same people we interviewed and we would say, “You told us you really cared a lot about making money. We built you this subscription program that will let you make money.”
人们需要钱。人们需要稳定性和质量。人们希望全世界的观众都能收看。这成为我们关注的焦点。我们把几乎所有的资源都投入到没有人在采访中提及的事情中。这些都是实际解决问题的方法。你可以说，这是可行的，因为我们会建立这些东西，我们会返回到完全相同的人，我们采访，我们会说，“你告诉我们，你真的很关心的钱。我们为您建立了这个订购计划，让您可以盈利
It’s astonishing because most people had actually never had that experience. They had never talked to someone and said, “It would be really great if your product had feature X” and then a month later your product actually has feature X, or at the very least a feature that addresses the problem that they brought up. The people we converted first to our product were the people that we talked to about user research. They were the ones who were the most impressed. Which is fun. It really worked, because we picked people who were representative. We picked big broadcasters. Small ones. Medium ones. We made sure were addressing their concerns. That was completely different from how we approached the problem at Justin.tv.
这太令人震惊了，因为大多数人实际上从未有过这种经历。他们从未与任何人交流过，并说，“如果你的产品有功能X，这将是非常好的”，然后一个月后，你的产品实际上有功能X，或至少有一个功能，解决了他们提出的问题。我们第一次将产品转换为用户研究的对象。他们是最令人印象深刻的。这很有趣。它确实有效，因为我们挑选了有代表性的人。我们选择了大型广播公司。小的。中等。我们确保解决了他们的问题。这与我们在Justin.tv.
With Justin.tv when we tried to do this, we’d go through huge amounts of data. We spent tons of time looking through Google Analytics, Mixpanel, and in-house analytics tools. Figuring out how people were trying to use the service, where our traffic came from, completion rates on flows. You can learn things from that. I’m not telling you not to look at your data. But it doesn’t tell you what the problems are you need to address. We would invent these ideas at Justin.tv without talking to someone and then nine times out of ten, that idea would turn out to be bad. That’s actually one of the disappointing things about doing user interviews and getting user feedback, which is why I think so many people don’t do it. You’re going to get negative news about your favorite feature most of the time. You’re going to have this great idea and you’re going to talk to users and it’s going to turn out that nobody actually wants it. They are actually concerned about a completely different set of things and they don’t care about what you thought was important at all. That’s a little bit sad, but think about how sad you’d be in four months when you launch that feature and it turns out no one actually wants to use it.
与Justin.tv当我们试图做到这一点时，我们会查阅大量数据。我们花了大量时间研究谷歌分析、Mixpanel和内部分析工具。了解人们如何尝试使用该服务，我们的流量来自何处，流量的完成率。你可以从中学到东西。我不是要你不要看你的资料。但这并不能说明你需要解决的问题。我们会在Justin.tv如果不先和别人说，然后十次中有九次，这个想法最终会变成坏的。这实际上是进行用户访问和获得用户反馈的令人失望的事情之一，这也是我认为很多人不这样做的原因。大多数时候你都会收到关于你最喜欢的功能的负面消息。你会有一个好的想法，你会和用户交流，结果没有人真正需要它。他们实际上关心的是完全不同的一系列事情，他们根本不关心你认为重要的事情。这有点让人伤感，但请想一想，当你在四个月内推出该功能，却没有人真正想使用它时，你会有多伤感。
That’s the lecture section. I want to take some questions from the audience.
这是讲座部分。我想回答观众的一些问题。
Audience Member 4 : What do you see startups get most wrong about interviews? Most startups don’t do them at all, but the ones that do, what are their most common mistakes?
观众4：你认为创业公司在面试中最容易犯错的地方是什么？大多数创业公司根本不做这些事，但做这些事的公司最常犯的错误是什么？
Emmett Shear: The most common mistake is showing people your product. Don’t show them your product. It’s like telling them about a feature. You want to learn what’s already in their heads. You want avoid putting things there. The other thing is asking about your pet feature direction. If you think you want to add subscriptions to your product, going and asking people, “Would you pay for a subscription? Would you use this feature?”
埃米特•西尔：最常见的错误是向人们展示你的产品。别给他们看你的产品。这就像是在向他们讲述一个功能。你想了解他们的想法。你要避免把东西放在那。另一件事是询问你的宠物特征方向。如果你认为你想为你的产品增加订阅，去问人们，“你会为一订阅付款么？是否使用此功能
Another big mistake people make is talking to who is available rather than talking to who they need to talk to. There are certain users are really easy to get at because they are members of your forum already. You have some product forum, you talk to the users on that forum because they’re easy to access. We spent weeks digging for identifying information and figuring out who these people were so we could talk to them. This was a site that did not support messaging, so there was no obvious way to interact with them. We spent a bunch of time trying to network and find those users. Because if you just talk to who’s easy to talk to, you’re not getting the best data. The fortunate side there is almost everyone is flattered to be asked what they think, so they will actually talk to you and tell you things.
人们犯的另一个大错是与有空的人交流，而不是与需要交流的人交流。有一些用户确实很容易获得，因为他们已经是您论坛的成员。你有一些产品论坛，你和论坛上的用户交流，因为他们很容易访问。我们花了数周的时间挖掘识别信息，弄清楚这些人是谁，以便我们能与他们沟通。这是一个不支持消息传递的网站，因此没有明显的方式与他们互动。我们花了大量时间尝试建立网络并找到这些用户。因为如果你只和容易说话的人说话，你得不到最好的数据。幸运的一方，几乎每个人都会被问到他们的想法而感到荣幸，所以他们会和你说真话。
Audience Member 5: How hard was it to get buy in from the rest of your company? You can say, “I’m in charge so you’re doing what I say” but that’s probably not the best way of doing it.
观众5：从公司其他部门获得认可有多难？你可以说，“我负责，你按我说的做”，但这可能不是最好的方式。
Emmett Shear: That’s a good question. If you just go to them and say, “I talked to the users. I figured it out. We have to build this,” it’s really hard because people don’t trust you. There’s something magic about showing them the interview though. I recommend recording interviews. It also stops you from taking notes in the middle, which is a little bit disruptive. It makes it hard for you to actually engage in the conversation. You can then play that recording for people. They don’t have to be there for the entirety of all the interviews, but when you want to make a point about what what you should be building and why, you can play the interview back for the rest of the company. It’s like magic, the influence it has on people’s thoughts, on what is the right thing to build.
埃米特：这是个好问题。如果你只是对他们说“我和用户谈过了。我明白了。我们必须建立这个“这真的很难，因为人们不信任你。不过，给他们看面试还是有点神奇的。我建议录下采访。这也会使你无法在中间做笔记，这有点干扰。这让你很难真正参与到对话中来。然后你可以为人们播放该录音。他们不必在整个面试过程中都在场，但当你想明确自己应该建立什么样的团队以及原因时，你可以为公司的其他人重温面试。它像是施了魔，影响了人们的思想，影响了正确的行为。
Audience Member 6: Since you mentioned recording, did you try to insist on doing Skype interviews rather than over email?
观众6：因为你提到了录音，你有没有试过坚持用Skype而不是通过电子邮件进行采访？
Emmett Shear: You definitely want to Skype. You don’t want to do interviews over email if you can avoid it, because interviews over email are non-interactive. The most interesting learnings come from the, “Interesting. Tell me more.” The instant you hit this vein, they will say something that you didn’t expect. And then you should drop into detective mode. Detective mode is, “Huh, that’s interesting. Can you tell me more about that?” People don’t like silence, so they’ll keep talking to feel the void. The best part about doing an interview over Skype or doing it in person is that you have that interactive feedback. You can actually pull a lot more out of people. Email interviews are basically useless. In person or over Skype interviews are also easy to record. Make sure you ask them if it’s ok to record. It’s not polite to record people without their consent, but if they are willing to give you a user interview, they’ll probably willing for you to record it as well.
埃米特：你肯定想用Skype。如果可以避免，你不希望通过电子邮件进行面试，因为通过电子邮件进行的面试是非互动的。最有趣的学习来自「有趣」。你一打中血管，他们就会说一些你没有料到的话。然后你应该进入侦查模式。警探模式是“啊，很有意思。你能再多给我讲讲么人们不喜欢沉默不语，所以他们会继续讲话以感受空虚。通过Skype进行面试或亲自面试的最佳之处在于，您获得了互动反馈。实际上，你可以从人们身上提取更多。电子邮件面试基本上没用。亲自或通过Skype进行的访谈也很容易记录。一定要问他们是否可以录音。在未经允许的情况下记录用户是不礼貌的，但如果他们愿意接受您的用户访问，他们可能也愿意让您记录。
Audience Member 6: What about the international market? You mentioned that you have a lot of users in Korea.
观众6：国际市场情况如何？你提到你在韩国有很多用户。
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Emmett Shear: That’s really hard. To this day Twitch works way better in English speaking countries than it does in non-English speaking countries. A big part of that is we are much better at talking to people in English speaking countries and learning what their needs are. We are not as good at that in other Countries. We’ve tried to address that by hiring people who speak Korean and having them translate. We’ve tried to address it by finding representative people who speak both English and Korean and reaching out to them. But the problem is you’re not actually getting a representative sample, no matter how hard you try. The very fact that they are a fluent English speaker means they are not representative of all the people who don’t speak fluent English. It’s a hard problem. It’s why companies find it easier to build markets in their home country. It’s really hard to talk to users abroad.
埃米特：这真的很难。迄今为止，推特在英语国家比在非英语国家更有效。其中很大一部分是我们更擅长与英语国家的人交流，并了解他们的需求。我们在这方面没有其他国家做得好。我们试图通过雇用会说韩语的人并让他们翻译来解决这个问题。我们试图通过寻找同时会说英语和韩语的有代表性的人并联系他们来解决这个问题。但问题是无论你如何努力，实际上都没有得到一个有代表性的样本。他们能说一口流利的英语，这意味着他们不能代表所有不会说一口流利英语的人。这是个难题。这也是公司发现在自己的国家建立市场更容易的原因。与海外用户交流真的很难。
Audience Member 7: What channels do you use to reach out to them? And do you ever compensate them?
观众7：您通过哪些渠道接触他们？你有没有赔偿他们？
Emmett Shear: The channels we used to reach out to them were onsite messaging systems. Most websites have some way to contact the user. If they are a visible user of another website, you use that site’s messaging system and say, “Hey. I was watching your stream…” Or, “I’d love to ask you some questions about your usage. Would you mind hopping on a Skype call?” We also find out where those people were. We’d run into them at events because a lot of these people go to the same events. We wouldn’t run the user interview at the event, but we’d get to know them. We would exchange business cards and we would get in touch with them. We tend not to compensate people. If people don’t care enough about the problem to like someone who is trying to solve it, you’re probably barking up the wrong tree. We never had any trouble getting people to talk to us without paying them.
埃米特Shear:我们过去接触他们的渠道是现场信息系统。大多数网站都有联系用户的方法。如果他们是另一个网站的可见用户，则使用该网站的消息传递系统并说“嗨。我在看你的小溪……”或“我很想问你一些关于你的用法的问题。您介不介乎跳上一个Skype电话我们也知道这些人在哪里。我们在活动中遇到他们是因为很多人都参加同一个活动。我们不会在活动中进行用户访问，但我们会了解他们。我们交换名片，并与他们取得联系。我们倾向于不赔偿他人。如果人们不太关心这个问题，不喜欢有人试图解决它，你很可能是在胡思乱想。我们从没有遇到过让人们不付款就和我们说话的困难。
Audience Member 7: What about onsite user feedback tools?
观众7：现场用户反馈工具如何？
Emmett Shear: This is a whole second set of user feedback that’s really important. You’re talking about when you have a new product and you want to see if it’s actually going to work or not. You put it in front of people and see how they use it or not. That is super, super important. It can tell you where you went wrong building something before you launch it, which is great. It doesn’t tell you what to build. It helps you iron out the kinks and edges of the thing you did build. Generally speaking, that wasn’t the user feedback we were getting. I mean that stuff’s good, it’s much more similar though to the data driving approach. You’re finding out why people are dropping off of this flow. You’re not finding out the problem you should really be solving. What do they care about as a human? This early stage user interview is crucial for startups. That’s where you want to focus. We didn’t bring anyone in onsite, it was almost all over phone or Skype.
埃米特Shear：这是第二组非常重要的用户反馈。你所说的是当你有了一个新产品，你想知道它是否真的能工作。你把它放在人们面前，看他们有没有用。这真是超级，超级重要。它可以告诉你在发布之前，你在哪里做了错事，这很好。它不会告诉你该建什么。这有助于你熨平你做的事情的扭结和边缘。一般而言，这不是我们获得的用户反馈。我的意思是这些都很好，虽然和数据驱动方法更相似。你会发现人们为何会从这股潮流中流失。你没有发现你真正应该解决的问题。作为一个人，他们关心什么？这个早期的用户访谈对创业公司至关重要。这是你想专注的地方。我们没有带任何人到现场，几乎都是通过电话或Skype。
Audience Member 8: In finding groups of people that can give different kinds of feedback, is there a group that you should focus on first?
观众8：在寻找能够提供不同类型反馈的群体时，有没有一个群体应该放在第一位？
Emmett Shear: Given that we had very limited resources, we focused on the people using competing products. We knew that they were already interested in the behavior that we needed and they were willing to do it at all. Therefore all we had to do was convince them to switch, which is much easier to do than to create a new behavior. We did that because we had to get some quick wins. My gaming project inside of Justin.tv would have been killed if wasn’t showing twenty-five percent month over month growth every single month. That meant focusing on the short-term, on getting the people in right now. That turned out to be good in general.
埃米特Shear：鉴于我们的资源非常有限，我们专注于使用竞争产品的人员。我们知道他们已经对我们所需要的行为感兴趣，他们完全愿意这样做。因此，我们所要做的就是说服他们改变，这比创造一个新的行为要容易得多。我们这样做是因为我们必须快速取得胜利。我的博彩项目Justin.tv如果不是每个月都有百分之二十五的月比月增长，他们早就被杀了。这意味着要专注于短期的工作，让员工尽快加入进来。总的来说是好的。
Audience Member 9: In the beginning the video gaming industry was decentralized. There wasn’t a lot of cohesion, but now it’s very different. You said you originally spoke to broadcasters and streamers themselves. How has that changed? For example, ? has banned users or professional players from streaming their own stuff. Did you try to gain leverage with that?
观众9：在一开始，视频游戏行业是分散的。虽然没有太多的凝聚力，但现在已经大不相同了。你说你最初是和广播公司和彩带公司联系的。这有何变化？例如？禁止用户或专业玩家上传自己的内容。你有没有试过用它来获取杠杆？
Emmett Shear: Yeah, so the question is about the game publishers. Game publishers are important people in the space. Any big company for that matter isn’t going to give you the time of day as a small startup. Which is both good and bad. It means you don’t need to talk to them because they’re not interested in you. But it means you actually just can’t talk to them. We tried but no one wanted to talk to us. They did once we started getting some traction and becoming a bit of a player in the space.
埃米特：是的，问题是关于游戏发行商。游戏发行商是这个领域的重要人物。任何大公司在这方面都不会给你一天中的时间作为一个小的创业公司。是好是坏。这意味着你不需要和他们说话，因为他们对你不感兴趣。但这意味着你不能和他们说话。我们试过了，但没有人想和我们说话。他们做到了，当我们开始获得一些牵引力，在空间上成为一名球员。
I don’t really want to talk that bad about them because they were nice enough about it. When you are a tiny little startup, there are lots of tiny little startups, and they don’t have the time to talk to all of you. As we’ve gotten bigger, game publishers have become increasingly important for us. If I was to talk about who Twitch does user interviews with now, who we pull information form now, it would include game publishers. Definitely! They’ve become much more active in the space. They weren’t particularly active three or four years ago. The really important user interviews in general are from the pool of people you care about, and that is going to shift over time. The people who get you started for the first six months are not who will be using it three years later. It’s very important you keep doing this stuff. One of the things that is really easy to do is to do a little bit of it in the beginning and achieve some success and then stop talking to new people. That’s a good way to make the next set of features you build be not as good as the first ones.
我真的不想说他们的坏话，因为他们对我很好。当你是一个很小的创业公司，有很多很小的创业公司，他们没有时间和你所有人讲话。随着我们的规模越来越大，游戏发行商对我们越来越重要。如果我要讨论Twitch现在对谁进行用户访问，我们现在从谁的网站上获取信息，其中包括游戏发行商。一定地！他们在太空中变得更加活跃。他们在三、四年前并不特别活跃。一般而言，真正重要的用户访问来自于你所关心的人，并且会随着时间的推移而改变。开始第一个月的人不会在三年后使用它。你继续做这些事很重要。其中一件真正容易做的事是在开始的时候做一点，取得一些成功，然后停止和新的人交流。这是一个好方法，可以使您构建的下一组功能不如第一组。
Audience Member 10: How do you give good user feedback if you’re a user?
观众10：如果你是一名用户，你如何给予良好的用户反馈？
Emmett Shear: How do you give good user feedback? I want a user to tell me what they are really thinking. What their problems really are. To just sort of ramble. I want someone to just tell me about stuff in their life. The more you learn about them as a person and the context of what they are doing, the easier it is to understand why they want the things they want. That’s really the critical question. What I am looking for in someone when I am doing a user interview is someone who is going to be willing to talk a lot and be willing to give me a full picture. On flip side, if you want to help people out with good user interview feedback, ramble.Just talk about everything.
埃米特•西尔：你如何给予良好的用户反馈？我希望一个用户告诉我他们的真实想法。他们真正的问题是什么。只是有点闲散。我希望有人能告诉我他们生活中的事情。你越是了解他们作为一个人以及他们所做事情的背景，就越容易理解他们为何要得到他们所要的东西。这确实是关键问题。当我在进行用户访问时，我在寻找一个愿意说很多话并愿意给我一个完整图像的人。另一方面，如果你想通过良好的用户访问反馈帮助人们，胡言乱语，只是什么都说。
Alright great. Well thank you very much!
好的，太好了。好吧，非常感谢！
Sam Altman: Thank you very much!
山姆：非常感谢！